The Resource For Musicals



Cats Forum


Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is? 
Author Message
Tony Winner
Tony Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 343
Location: California, USA
Current Obsession: Elisabeth, Cats, Follies, Scarlet Pimpernel
Post Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Image

.....is that what the original London Siamese cats looked like?! Isn't that a tad racially insensitive?! What were they thinking? :wtf: <--- My face right now.


Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:25 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 1915
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Yes, that's the old Siamese design.

What exactly is insensitive about it?


Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:39 am
Profile
Supporting Player
Supporting Player
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:19 pm
Posts: 101
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Yes, that's the old Siamese design.

What exactly is insensitive about it?

I was wondering too............

_________________
Image
CATS- now and forever


Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:08 am
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 343
Location: California, USA
Current Obsession: Elisabeth, Cats, Follies, Scarlet Pimpernel
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
They're suppose to be villains and they're dressed pretty stereotypically.... I mean, if the "We Are Siamese" song from Lady and the Tramp is considered insensitive, I don't see how this is any different.

Not to mention, the original lyrics in Growltiger included "with a frightful burst of fireworks, the Chinks, they swarmed aboard!" Uh, yeah, that's pretty racist.


Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:33 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:24 am
Posts: 366
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
When Elliot wrote the poem the word "chink" was still common, and it was perfectly ok (though still racist) to say aloud or in writing. When the show debuted in London it kept true to the original poem and kept the word "chink" in the lyrics. Later, this would be changed. I know many productions swapped out the word chinks for the much more PC "cats". Some productions still chose to use the original, though I believe that was dependant on where in the world the production was and what the director chose to do with it.

The costumes probably had something to do with that too. Though, to be honest, it does seem like the quickest way to transform a Cats character is to add things to them, so that may have factored in as well. Also, the latter designs of the siamese are still pretty darn racist - so if you want to get a bee in your bonnet about racism in Cats there's still plenty to go around in that song.

Also... I don't think they're supposed to be villains. If you have another listen to the lyrics they're basically just coming out to destroy this rampaging pirate who terrorises them on a regular basis. They're the heroes of the story, and Growltiger is the bastard pirate who gets brought to justice. The siamese are only villains because we're told the story from the pirates' point of view.

_________________
Image


Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:43 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 1915
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Flitterbug wrote:
Also... I don't think they're supposed to be villains. If you have another listen to the lyrics they're basically just coming out to destroy this rampaging pirate who terrorises them on a regular basis. They're the heroes of the story, and Growltiger is the bastard pirate who gets brought to justice. The siamese are only villains because we're told the story from the pirates' point of view.


Exactly. They may be the antagonist of the tale (a pantomime operetta, so everything has to be exaggerated anyway), but they are on the side of right, as the protagonist as already stated to be the evil one.
"He who a hundred victims had driven to that drop,
At the end of all his crimes was forced to go
Ker-flip ker-flop."


There are many jokes in older things that nowadays would be considered racist, but there was no maliciousness behind them at all.


Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:57 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 343
Location: California, USA
Current Obsession: Elisabeth, Cats, Follies, Scarlet Pimpernel
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Okay, maybe they're not technically villains in the context of the opera, but they still attacked Growltiger's ship and threw him off the deck. While this may have been rightfully so, I could easily see an audience member seeing them as the "bad guys" because we're naturally going to like the Growltiger/Gus character.

Either way, the design is rather shocking. Not that it really bothers me personally, but given the way our society views things, I can imagine it being insensitive to others. I mean, heck, there was a whole compaign not too long ago against Halloween costumes that depict a culture (---> http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_raci ... _wblog.jpg). Why not just make them like look like real Siamese cats? Actually, that'd be pretty neat. They could be cream with brown/black ears and tails. *is suddenly inspired to make a costume*


Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:38 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 1915
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Trying to make them look like Siamses cats would be too hard. They have to be able to quick-change to and from the Siamese, as well as all look the same, and hiding the character underneath.

Not to mention that the budget was much lower for the original, so all of the costumes were simpler and cheaper. The current costumes only really differ by being more expensive. They tour Asia with the costumes (and Brenton Wilson's Genghis accent), but they do change "Chinks they swarmed" to "Pirates Swarmed", and "Heathen Chinese" to "Winton Chinese".


Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:58 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:24 am
Posts: 366
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
Cptn. Wazoo wrote:
Either way, the design is rather shocking. Not that it really bothers me personally, but given the way our society views things, I can imagine it being insensitive to others.


It does seem to bother you, otherwise you wouldn't be pointing it out, and using the indignant title "anyone mind explaining what the heck is this?"

I realize you're not going to change your opinion on this, so all we can do is explain the origins, shrug and say "art, dude". Theatre can be confronting, it can be rude and politically incorrect, it can seek to prove a point or it can just be fun. The scene was not designed to offend people, it was designed to entertain. It's allowed a little lee-way when it comes to things like the siamese.

_________________
Image


Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:25 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 343
Location: California, USA
Current Obsession: Elisabeth, Cats, Follies, Scarlet Pimpernel
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
I asked because I honestly didn't know what it was supposed to be. I stumbled upon the photo while browsing another site and it baffled me. And there's no reason for me personally to be offended by it, seeing as I'm not of Asian decent. I just wanted some clarification. *shrug* I probably would not have gotten an answer on, say, Yahoo! Answers, so why not ask fellow fans? But I don't know, the design just seems so blatantly racist that I question the thinking behind it. :| Especially considering that the show seemed so family friendly (whether we agree with that or not.)

@ Mungojerrie_rt Good point. But maybe they could have used coats. Or something similar to Griddlebone's costume.


Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:27 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 1915
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
I'm still baffled as to what you think is racist about the costume. Red pants? Unfortunately, I can't find and reference pictures of actual Siamese pirates or imperial legions, etc. The most important part is the eye pattern, making the "Thousand bright blue eyes"


Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Profile
Tony Winner
Tony Winner

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:24 am
Posts: 366
Post Re: Anyone mind explaining what the heck this is?
The hats maybe? And the fans? Though personally I like the fans - they look cool when incorporated into the choreography.

_________________
Image


Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:45 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.