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Elphaba and Glinda Subtext? 

Is there slashy subtext between Elphie and Glinda in the musical?
Yes 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
No, just in the book 59%  59%  [ 16 ]
It depends on the actresses' interpretations 33%  33%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 27

Elphaba and Glinda Subtext? 
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Mistress wrote:
Godamned parental controls *cries*


I'd cry too! :cry:


Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:53 pm
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Okay, I'm mortified to be in a Wicked thread, mainly because Wicked + me don't really go together. But AzelmaCombeferre9430 has kind of hijacked the thread with the "OMG Thaxton is so slashy" talk and I just have so say that 1) No, that is not the reason why there is a fangirling thread, I doubt it has even come up there, ; 2) It is not the defining thing about his performance so why would you stereotype it like this?! 3) it simply is NOT "YES. SO. DARN. SLASHY". What are you talking about?
That's all. Sorry for being off-topic. I'd prefer to discuss this in the actual Les Mis subforum, too.

ETA - here, simply because I can't be bothered to go anymore off topic in this thread with another post that has nothing to do with Wicked: Yes, there is a BIT of slash (and, thank you, I like a certain amount of slash on stage). But his performance is not about that at all. You're going by a video that was filmed one year ago, and you're solely focussing on that one aspect. You're not basing this on anything. That's a bit unfair, making him the poster boy of overdone subtext this way, isn't it?


Last edited by Eppie-Sue on Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:37 am, edited 3 times in total.



Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:44 am
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Well, apparantly at least one other person on the Les Mis forum though it slashy...I don't visit it too frequently, but I noticed a large following of slash fans there, especially fans of the Enjy slash. Someone once mentioned one particualar stage Enjy who actually did go a bit slashy at parts. I'd forgotten who it was, but Azelma's description of Thaxton's portrayal fit with what I remember of the description that was given. Don't bite our heads off for that :roll:

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Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:37 am
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Mistress wrote:
Well, apparantly at least one other person on the Les Mis forum though it slashy...I don't visit it too frequently, but I noticed a large following of slash fans there, especially fans of the Enjy slash. Someone once mentioned one particualar stage Enjy who actually did go a bit slashy at parts. I'd forgotten who it was, but Azelma's description of Thaxton's portrayal fit with what I remember of the description that was given. Don't bite our heads off for that :roll:


Thanks Mistress. =D>
Its also nice to know I'm not the only Wicked Mizzie out there too!
(And btw, I have no problem with slash, I'm just acknowledgind Thaxton's slashy-ness)


Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:23 am
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:lol: I'm not exactly a Wicked Mizzie. I haven't been crazy about Wicked for a while-I still like it, don't get me wrong, I'm just not a fangirl anymore-I just come ehre sporadically in hopes of finding something interesting, like this thread about lesbian subtext. Most of the threads here are just fangirling, nothing really to discuss or debate. I'm also just a sporadic Les Mis fan, waiting for the day the new American tour come to Toronto so I can finally see it XD. I try to talk on the Les Mis forum here, but I always get scared off by all the Brick talk that goes way over my head :lol:

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Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:42 pm
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Bway2be wrote:
Being a big Elphaba/Fiyero shipper, this can be a sore subject for me. But here's my two cents...

In the book, I do agree that Glinda had some unresolved lesbian feelings. There are a few passages that hint to this (such as, I believe, right after she leaves Elphaba in the Emerald City and is on the train home, if memory serves), but Glinda, being Glinda, is too into making appearances and doing things the "normal" way, that she would never admit these kinds of thoughts to herself or indeed realize the extent of them. Also, we've never really seen her have a very intimate relationship with any man in the book. Of course, her reason for blowing off Boq can be attributed to status, as well as her reason for choosing to marry Sir Chuffrey, but nevertheless, the issue remains there. Perhaps she isn't completely lesbian (if we consider the amount of homosexuality we have on a spectrum), but she isn't completely straight, either.

HOWEVER, I think Elphaba in the book is straight. While we can debate Fiyero's feelings for her, I don't think she would have ever been as devastated by his death or morphed into the cynical, bitter "Wicked Witch of the West" we know, if she hadn't truly loved Fiyero. Perhaps a lot of their relationship was based on their physical side, but I absolutely think Elphaba came to care for him (and had, perhaps, for all we know, since Shiz). It's this cool point of irony if we believe my theory that in the book Elphaba, the "Wicked" Witch of the West, is something more "accepted" in society, whereas Glinda the "Good" Witch, who tries so hard to cover expectations, might not be (and obviously, I am completely pro-gay, so I hate that straights get less abuse than gays do).

In the musical, however, I completely think that both Elphaba and Glinda are straight and that it is purely about their friendship. Glinda seems very into Fiyero; likewise, Elphaba is, too (how else would we analyze I'm Not That Girl?!). I think that strong friendship is something grossly underrated, and I wish that we as a whole were able to accept the theme of friendship without romanticizing it. I have many friends in my life who I "love" even if not in that way. If we want to see lesbian relationships, then we have Joanne and Maureen. But I really do think it's important to recognize that friendship can come in all forms-girl/girl, guy/girl, and even a girl/guy or two gay girls/girls or guys/guys without it being romantic.

Going back to the book, though, one of the points of the book is that there are more questions posed in the book than answers. So, even though you could debate that Glinda could be a lesbian, you could also debate that Glinda and Fiyero were actually having an affair behind Elphaba's back, that Elphaba truly didn't have a soul, that who knows, Liir WASN'T Elphaba's son (not that that makes sense with Son of a Witch, but you could debate it), that Turtle Heart was Nessarose's father (pretty easy to conclude to, if you're knowledgeable about Quadlings), that Elphaba actually took to being promiscuous before Fiyero and she began their love affair, etc. It's interesting to think about, but I think the true enchantment that makes Wicked such an amazing and inquisitive novel IS the fact that not everything in written in black and white or answered easily...just, for that matter, like the whole question of the nature of evil to begin with.

Haha, I sound very obsessive there, don't I? Well, anyway, that was just my two cents, even though, like I said, I don't think there IS an answer (in the book, at least) one way or another.


I think despite what Elphaba insisted, she had somewhat of a soul. It may not have been clear to her, but I think it was still there. Everyone has a soul, if one looks hard enough for it. A person is only completely human, by definition, with a soul. Unless she is not completely human, I disagree on the whole no-soul thing. Besides, remember what she says shortly before her death?

"What do you want?"
"A little peace and quiet."
"No really."
"A soul-"

So, you see, even if she didn't have a soul, this at least contradicts what she thought about souls.

*EDIT: Something I discovered in the book was the difference in how much took place after Dorothy arrived. In the musical, almost half of it mentiones her in some way. In the book, however, hardly any of it contains her. Kinda of odd, and a waste of a time. The only reason I read it so fast the forst time was to actually get tot he part with Dorothy in it. Sadly, that would mean missing a good 90% of the novel.


Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:46 pm
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