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marlalp  Chorus Member Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Total posts: 60 |
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| MlleTholomyès wrote: | | Or you know. He could just sit there, and stare off into the distance for two whole days, eliciting perplexed statements from the Frenchboys. |
Are you talking about Valjean at the barricade? In the book he went around attending to the wounded and repairing the barricade. And shooting guards' hats off.
| lesmisloony wrote: | | The thing about religion in LM is that though it doesn't jive with Book!Javert, it works for the musical. There's this whole thing Boublil and Schönberg were trying to do by giving the major characters constrasting views on religion. You can compare Bring Him Home to Stars (I read a thing where they were saying Javert's was an Old Testament God, while Valjean's was a New Testament one) |
That's an interesting take on it. While I still can't get onboard with a religious Javert, I like the contrasting old testament/new testament view idea. I think J/JVJ are supposed to be mirror opposites of each since they are based on the split personality of one guy. |
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MlleTholomyès Off-Broadway Lead Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Total posts: 192 Location: New York, New York! Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Misérables, and Gavin James!Combeferre. Or Combeferre in general. |
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| marlalp wrote: | | MlleTholomyès wrote: | | Or you know. He could just sit there, and stare off into the distance for two whole days, eliciting perplexed statements from the Frenchboys. |
Are you talking about Valjean at the barricade? In the book he went around attending to the wounded and repairing the barricade. And shooting guards' hats off.
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Hmm. The only part I remember is him staring at the ground for a LONG time, prompting Combeferre to make a remark about queer birds to Enjolras. I'm probably wrong, thoguh. I haven't read the brick in a couple months. |
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marlalpChorus Member Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Total posts: 60 |
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| MlleTholomyès wrote: | | marlalp wrote: | | MlleTholomyès wrote: | | Or you know. He could just sit there, and stare off into the distance for two whole days, eliciting perplexed statements from the Frenchboys. |
Are you talking about Valjean at the barricade? In the book he went around attending to the wounded and repairing the barricade. And shooting guards' hats off.
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Hmm. The only part I remember is him staring at the ground for a LONG time, prompting Combeferre to make a remark about queer birds to Enjolras. I'm probably wrong, thoguh. I haven't read the brick in a couple months. |
Yeah, he does that too. This is the part I'm talking about,
| "Prisoner", page 1253 of the Signet edition wrote: | | Jean Valjean had taken no other part in the combat than to expose himself. Save for him, in that supreme phase of the death struggle, nobody would have thought of the wounded. Thanks to him, present everywhere in the carnage like a providence, those who fell were taken up, carried into the lower room, and their wounds dressed. In the intervals, he repaired the barricade. |
And don't forget about the mattress... |
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Orestes Fasting Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
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| Eppie-Sue wrote: | ITA on the "Red and Black" thing. *shudders*
| DramaPrincess wrote: |
I LOVE the idea of the Bishop replacing Eponine at the end, she has seemed a random inclusion for so long seeing as she didn't really have any connection with Valjean, but had never even considered the Bishop, top marks for that idea. |
Buuuut then Combeferre wouldn't be in the Finale! Combeferre + Bishop = one actor. 
That said, I love the idea, too, but I understand why Eponine might be there - while Fantine holds her protective hand over Cosette's head (obviously), Eponine is standing behind Marius, so... yeah. And besides, they kind of created an arc when they had Valjean telling Eponine to be careful, "there's danger in the streets tonight" just before she gets shot. Grasping at straws here.
As for "Turning": You see, I have this really thought-out theory on why this song would work really well if they just changed some lyrics, but I'm really, really tired (it's like 2:25 am over here) so you'll get the short explanation. And maybe I'm over-analysing.
Do you remember the moment in the book in the scene where Enjolras, Combeferre and Marius try to convince some of the men to leave the barricades, wearing the uniforms, and Combeferre tells them about the boy they found and examined in pathology or something, and how there was some sort of mud in his stomach and all... and then he goes on to remind them that if they die, their families won't have anyone to care for them, to provide for them, so they'll be put into even bigger misery, the children will become malnourished and might die, the women might have to sell their bodies, etc. ?! It's just what happened to Fantine and Cosette when they were left alone - a family without a man was a serious problem in early 19th century France.
Now, "Turning" is just that: An allusion to "Lovely Ladies", where women prostituted themselves, where a mother had to sell herself to provide for her child, so the melody reminds us of the ongoing problems - and it would work really, really well if the lyrics were not about the dead students (they act like their mothers, which they shouldn't...) but about the heads of the families that died etc.
Does anybody get my gist? |
Sorry for the thread necromancy here, but I was reading through old stuff and this struck me...
I've always kind of wanted to either cut Turning, or have it sung by the whores. Partly to give it more bite, partly to reinforce the message that Hey They're People Too and give them something to say besides "wow, prostitution sucks." But reading this post I got another idea...
Half of the women are off-duty whores in the full Lovely Ladies getup, half of them are dressed normally as in the regular version of Turning. If we really want to play up the "Combeferre's think of the women speech" angle, they could be the women who left the barricade at Dawn of Anguish. Lines are split between the two groups. Near the end, it starts becoming more and more like a dialogue, until one of the girls--possibly at the darker mood shift around "nothing changes / nothing ever will"--in desperation hitches up her skirts and joins the whores. And then as the song progresses, one by one the women fall into prostitution as well.
I'm not sure it would work onstage but I like the idea.
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Abaissé: the horizon that may be seen from the crest of a barricade. |
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Eppie-Sue Broadway Legend
Location: London Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Misérables. |
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I would have JVJ, Javert and Enjolras sing the "Tomorrow is the Judgement Day" line in ODM. As simple as that.
hmpf. It would work so well. Especially with the "how long before the Jugdement Day...?" in "Look Down". *folds arms* Shoot me.
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flying_pigsBroadway Legend
Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Total posts: 893 Location: UK Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Mis, Next to Normal, Hayden Tee, David Thaxton |
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Yes!
I've always wanted that!
And perhaps a few lines in the One Day More section at the end, perhaps in the gaps that Eponine doesn't sing?
Soo:
Ep: One more day all on my own
Enj: At the barricade of freedom
Ep: What a life I might have known
Enj: Will you take your place with me!
It wouldn't make any sense but I just always wanted Enjolras to sing in that bit, especially as the other principles do!
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Vanessa20 Tony Winner Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Total posts: 375 |
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I've got one.
Maybe this is just my Asperger's, but I've always found Marius' stance in terms of his whole Love-vs-the Cause conflict to be kind of confusing. Maybe it's meant to be that way, because he's confused, but whatever. I know how it is in the book (he can't afford to follow Cosette, he thinks she's already gone thanks to Eponine, and goes to the barricade to die, etc). But in the musical, he actively chooses to go to the barricade instead of following Cosette, and writes that he prays that God will bring him home to be with her, and yet later he's suddenly moaning "Do I care if I should die, now she goes across the sea, etc." I think to myself "Stop whining, doltboy, you chose this!" and I don't get why one minute he apparently has hope of finding her after the barricade, but the next it's gone.
I'd like to make either one of two possible changes.
1) Change the text of his letter to something more along the lines of "goodbye forever, I'm sorry for choosing to give up our love, but I need to take a stand against injustice," and then leave in his suicidal moaning at the barricade.
Or
2) Don't change the letter, but change "Do I care if I should die, etc" to something like "I pray that I survive so I can seek out Cosette, she's waiting for me."
Take your pick.
I know that neither option is quite true to the Brick, but no less so than any other aspects of musical!Marius. |
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Muscialperformer92 Young Hoofer
Joined: 25 Apr 2009 Total posts: 38 Location: Denmark Primary role: Performer Current obsession: Les Mis! Phantom! Wicked! Legally Blonde! |
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| Vanessa20 wrote: | I've got one.
Maybe this is just my Asperger's, but I've always found Marius' stance in terms of his whole Love-vs-the Cause conflict to be kind of confusing. Maybe it's meant to be that way, because he's confused, but whatever. I know how it is in the book (he can't afford to follow Cosette, he thinks she's already gone thanks to Eponine, and goes to the barricade to die, etc). But in the musical, he actively chooses to go to the barricade instead of following Cosette, and writes that he prays that God will bring him home to be with her, and yet later he's suddenly moaning "Do I care if I should die, now she goes across the sea, etc." I think to myself "Stop whining, doltboy, you chose this!" and I don't get why one minute he apparently has hope of finding her after the barricade, but the next it's gone.
I'd like to make either one of two possible changes.
1) Change the text of his letter to something more along the lines of "goodbye forever, I'm sorry for choosing to give up our love, but I need to take a stand against injustice," and then leave in his suicidal moaning at the barricade.
Or
2) Don't change the letter, but change "Do I care if I should die, etc" to something like "I pray that I survive so I can seek out Cosette, she's waiting for me."
Take your pick.
I know that neither option is quite true to the Brick, but no less so than any other aspects of musical!Marius. |
Oh I never really thought of that- but you are so right! It is rather confusing. I think that the letter should be changed in some way, with him writing something like "I hope that I survive so we can meet again"- I don't know..
I think they want us to believe that Cosette has no choice but to go with Valjean, and therefor Marius don't care if he is dead or alive because there is nothing he can do to make her stay- and he can't follow her either because of valjean- But the letter doesn't make sense at all.. how would he come home to someone who lives so far away- and if that was possible, why did he then go to the barricade in the first place? Wasn't that because he couldn't be with cosette?
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MajorTordoArthur Fresh Face
Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Total posts: 3 Location: Bruges, Belgium Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Misérables, Martin Guerre |
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I'd also cut turning, and try to insert a scéne concerning Enjolras' execution, with or without Grantaire.
Also, reinstall some of the barbican lyrics(Plumet attack, Fantine's arrest, A heart full of love, Dog eats dog, I saw him once, In my life, Stars, The Robbery).
Shorten the Prologue a little(Inn scéne), if possible shorten At the end of the day a little(I think it's a tad too long), cut the locket-selling, cut the pimp/prostitutes in Look Down(I think that it was perfect as it was on the OLC), change the ABC café to match the one on the OFC(I loved it so much),
Try to give Enjolras' lines in the last part of One Day More! where they all sing together, I don't really like Bring him home, but trying to change it would make people want to kill me, Let Prouvaire get shot during the first attack and give his line in Drink with me to Bossuet, deglorify Eponine by cutting Night of Anguish (ALFOR ends, Courfeyrac tries to comfort Marius while an ALFOR instrumental plays, Enjolras giving command to move the body, all without any words, and cut to Valjean's arrival immediately).
That would be it, it's only my opinion though. |
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Orestes FastingBroadway Legend / MdN Veteran
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...you really, seriously want to bring back the awful Barbican lyrics to A Heart Full of Love, the ridiculous disco Amis from the OFC, the anticlimactic OLC ending to Stars, and the super-awkward chorus lines in Fantine's Arrest?
I mean, it's your choice and all that, but... there's a reason most of these things were changed.
Also, the bit with the old hag, the prostitute, and the pimp in Look Down was there in the original Barbican lyrics, it just got cut for the OLC. Besides, that part is useful from a practical standpoint: it gives Valjean and the Thénardiers more time to change costumes and wigs.
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Abaissé: the horizon that may be seen from the crest of a barricade. |
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MajorTordoArthurFresh Face
Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Total posts: 3 Location: Bruges, Belgium Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Misérables, Martin Guerre |
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| Orestes Fasting wrote: | ...you really, seriously want to bring back the awful Barbican lyrics to A Heart Full of Love, the ridiculous disco Amis from the OFC, the anticlimactic OLC ending to Stars, and the super-awkward chorus lines in Fantine's Arrest?
I mean, it's your choice and all that, but... there's a reason most of these things were changed.
Also, the bit with the old hag, the prostitute, and the pimp in Look Down was there in the original Barbican lyrics, it just got cut for the OLC. Besides, that part is useful from a practical standpoint: it gives Valjean and the Thénardiers more time to change costumes and wigs. |
I kinda have a thing for the older recordings, and I liked the lyrics, especially the fact that Stars ends calmer , I don't really know why. About the ABC café, I just want it to be longer in terms of lyrics, but the orchestrations should remain the same. and I know that the exchange in Look Down was there on the Barbican recording, and cut for the OLC, but I never really saw it as a piece to give Thénardier more time to change his clothes, which just changed my opinion on the part.
Also, I think everyone is entitled to his own opinion, and I just thought to share mine.
I also agree with the people who want to replace the bishop with Éponine for the finale |
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Eppie-SueBroadway Legend
Location: London Primary role: Fan Current obsession: Les Misérables. |
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But... oh but no, not the Bishop. They'd have to give him a bigger role in the beginning of the musical to make that work. I like that you've got Eponine there for Marius and Fantine for Cosette. The Bishop, as important as he is to Valjean's development and in the book, is not a prominent character in the musical, I'm sorry. As much as I'd love to see it, it wouldn't work. Fantine died for Cosette, Eponine, in the wider sense, died for Marius, there are death scenes for all of them, the audience identifies with Eponine (and as much as Eppieboppers annoy me, too, this is the musical adaptation and not a stage production of the book).
Don't kill me, please.
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