I'd have to say that Oliver is considered a children's show more than it should be. I mean, it really does have some things in it that kids won't get or be comfortable with, but because there is a large children ensemble, people think that it is automatically a kid show.

That's like saying Lord of the Flies is a kids' book because they're all children.

I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, I agree it's not a show for young kids to see, but it's still a show that young kids perform in. This was my first musical, I was in seventh grade and I played an orphan. Schools do this show all the time, and even community theatres that put the show on would have to use young kids or maybe young teens to play the orphans and/or Fagin's kids. So even though it's not a show for young kids, it's still a show that many young kids have been/are/will be involved in and in that case, depending on their age, it may indeed be inappropriate to have Fagin played as a perv. Not saying you shouldn't, only justifying what someone else (sorry, I don't remember who) said.

Yeah, if you were to play Fagin as a perv, it would have to be in a very professional enviornment.

Dear "Oliver!" Fans,

That's probably true, jackissensational.

I sometimes think that America has "gotten it all wrong", with regards to movie ratings, book reviews, etc.

I mean, when Katharine Ross (a grown woman) was uncomfortable portraying violence in "The Stepford Wives"...when poor Linda Blair caught Hell (excuse the pun...or not...LOL!) for her strictly professional role in "The Exorcist"...when children's books which are written by celebrities are touted as being cool SIMPLY because celebs wrote them...when there aren't FREE parent screenings of the latest "family" movies (When I first saw "E.T." on the big screen, I cried during the later scenes)...then, you know that there are still some "bugs in the system", so to speak.

I certainly think that Fagin could be portrayed so that he could convey varying degrees of perverseness. Then again, the question is: "Are we effecting the audience alone, or will the child actors be effected as well?"

I don't know how some child actors are able to deal with the onstage (or onscreen) storylines which are being portrayed. I mean, I think that it's really fun to create more adult-type storylines, but I understand that if they are turned into live/ cinematic productions, the children involved must be really mature.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

I don't think Fagin is supposed to be perverted, I think he just uses the orphans for money

As for Oliver being a childrens show, I think it does deal with themes that aren't appropriate, but a lot of it does seem to go over their heads.

It's not a question of what or who he "is supposed to be," but of an actor's portrayal. I just don't think it would work for the children's sakes, unless they were all professional and experienced actors.

Ok then
I don't think he shoul be portrayed as perverted
Anyway, the show deals with a lot of other dark themes, I don't think that needs to be added as well

He's an evil man! Shouldn't that be enough? Why does Fagin need to be a pedophile?


Portraying Fagin as a pedophile who's using the kids to get kicks rather than because he's an opportunistic scumbag would be the equivalent of John Malkovich choosing to ignore Lennie Small's psychological state in "Of Mice and Men" by making him out to have Down Syndrome instead of being a true halfwit.

Yeah, I think playing him as a pedophile is a bit much, but it is fun to tease our Fagin about it.

As with anything else, it depends on the production. It is certainly implied in the original novel. Similar to the way you see some Nancies who are just poor and in love, some who are obviously prostitutes, and everything in between. It all depends on how grim the production is.

The Fagin of Oliver Twist is really an exploitive bastard. He only gets turned into a loving father figure in Oliver!