G(a)linda asks a question in "No One Mourns the Wicked" that I thought would make a good thread for this board. She asks "Are people born wicked or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?" What is everyone's opinion on this. I'll post my opinion later as to not put any pressure on anyone because of what I said.

Seriously?

How about you contribute to the conversation instead of posting a sarcastic spiteful reply?

Anyway, I think people have wickedness thrust upon them. I think this principle can relate to Tom Riddle in the Harry Potter series. MuggleCast has done a few podcasts on the subject, and while they remain divided, some of the arguments have convinced me that wickedness is developed over time, not present from the very beginning. You are the sum total of everyone you've ever known, therefore who you are is a result of who has influenced you.

I have no interest in contributing to the conversation other than to point out someone else's self-importance.

(Which I realize may be ironic.)

I think you have to define 'wickedness'.

e.g. if you considered "Antisocial personality disorder" 'wicked' (which I think people would), then apparently genetic factors are important:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial ... der#Causes

Though also environmental, so in this case it would be both 'thrust upon' them and 'born with it'.

I don't believe that there is such thing as a wicked person. There are people who do wicked things but they also have good in them. I don't think it's possible for someone to be just born completely evil, the events going on around them and the way people treat them will have a gigantic influence on the things they do. Of course some people will respond to these things differently then others. Some will use bad things happening as an excuse to do bad things while others will use them as an excuse to do good things. People who do wicked things have to accept consequences but that doesn't make them bad people or mean that they can't change.

In Elphaba's case, I believe she had wickedness thrust upon her. However, it did not make her wicked. Others believed she was, but all of her actions were misinterpreted (sp?) and turned around on her by Madame Morrible to make it look as if she were the wicked one. By doing this Madame Morrible took the attention off of the Wizard & herself.

***SPOILER***




We see on many occasions that Elphaba is trying to help, rather than harm. A few examples of this are:

"No Good Deed" - She casts a spell to make her love, Fiyero, feel no pain and never die so that they can still be together.

In the Finale, she wishes she could tell her best friend, Glinda, that she & Fiyero are all right and safe, but she knows that to keep her one true love and herself safe, she can't.

She casts a spell to make her sister, who has been in a wheelchair her whole life, walk for the very first time.






If these aren't the actions of a loving, compassionate person, then I don't know what is.

This is my 2 cents on the subject

Yes, I don't think anyone would claim Elphaba is 'Wicked', (the entire premise for the show is that she is not, I think ).

the line is a rip off of shakespeare from twelfth night..
"some are born great..some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them."

Hardly a rip off, doesn't take a genius to think up the phrase 'thrust upon
I believe it's due to enviromental factors or in Elphaba's case, merely being labelled as wicked. To me people aren't necessarily wicked but may do things or make mistakes that may be taken badly. These mistakes get labelled as wicked things to do.

Come on that's easy to say now that it has already been written...

It's meant to be a ripoff. It's a cultural reference.