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Shameless repetition 
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Post Shameless repetition
Is this featured in more ALW shows besides POTO?


Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:41 pm
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Boulevard and Aspects repeat phrases quite a bit. Whistle does also, but less so. CATS repeats parts if it's overture (between some songs and during the 'ballet') and parts of 'Memory' are sung in three places during the show (including the song in full near the end) Evita has a song that is sung by two characters in different styles, Oh What a Circus and Don't Cry For Me Argentina, as a form of juxtaposition.
I find repetition to be useful in carrying a story-thread through a show, and to indicate a character's changing mental state. But that's just me.

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Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:50 am
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Quote:
I find repetition to be useful in carrying a story-thread through a show, and to indicate a character's changing mental state. But that's just me.


I agree repetition can be effective, but not in cases like POTO. I sat down and listened to the OLC album straight through and was, shocked, at how shameless some of the same melodies were repeated over, and over again for what I feel was no purpose..

I really feel that ALW's melodies {at least in POTO} are seen positively because after hearing them so many times you are just conditioned to like them.


Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:18 pm
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LaGataNegra wrote:
CATS repeats parts if it's overture (between some songs and during the 'ballet')


Um, that's because it's the Overture. All overtues are just mash-ups of music of the show.


Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:43 pm
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Post Overtures
LaGataNegra wrote:
CATS repeats parts if its overture (between some songs and during the 'ballet').

Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Um, that's because it's the Overture. All overtures are just mash-ups of music of the show.

No, they aren't. Several shows have an overture that isn't just a medley of of tunes from the show. In fact, even though it establishes three of the musical themes we will hear in the show, Cats is a prime example of a show with an overture that isn't just a medley and which works as a prologue to the show rather than just an overview of the score. So I'd say it's fair game to say that the parts to say, in this case, that parts of the overture are repeated (and further developed musically) during the show.

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Last edited by RainbowJude on Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:56 pm
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Examples of non-programmatic overtures:

The Threepenny Opera
Urinetown
Candide

All are fantastic, imo, btw.

ALW uses a ton of repitition in most if not all of his shows. Woman in the White is basically the same five songs over and over and over again. At least PotO, Evita, and Sunset usemore than five repeated melodies...

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Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:12 pm
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Well a show with countless of reprises is Jesus christ superstar.
But I think it's rather genius written.

First of all, the second tune in the show "What's the buzz" is both used straight after "heaven on their minds." and when Jesus is taken away after the song "Gethsame"

The priestess pretty much only sing the same tune every time they are on, just with different lyrics.

"Hosanna" is first used when jesus invades Jerusalem and indicate it is a praising song, yet when Jesus is captured they sing "Hosanna" again, it's precisely the same song but in this context it is a mocking song.

after "Simon Zelotes." jesus sings "my poor Jerusalem" but the tune is actually from "Gethsame."

Then we get to the temple were the ensemble has their own song simply called "the temple." yet the tune is exactly the same as is used later by the ensemble in "the arrest." in the middle of the temple were the tune have a break we have our second encounter with the tune from "Gethsame"

The tune Judas sings in "Blood money." is also the exact same as his sings later doing the break up of the last supper and in "the death of Judas."
doing the "The death of Judas" there is also a reprise of "I don't know how to love him." also in the break up of the last supper judas sings half of the first verse in the title song "Jesus christ superstar." not only the tune, but also the lyrics.

I think I am out of breath...


Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:26 am
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It's interesting how you note instances of repetition in the ALW scores, most notably in POTO. But I think I could mention some interesting cases.
In Joseph, I know that Joseph's solo part in Joseph's Dreams is used effectively as a counterpoint to the chorus of Benjamin Calypso, as if to underscore Joseph's dreams coming true. It also serves as a link to Joseph All the Time.
I find it intriguing that Che previews Don't Cry For Me Argentina by singing the lyrics of Oh What a Circus to an upbeat version of the tune. I might think of it as an Evita motif because Evita sings a snatch of the song in her final broadcast.
There are some felicities in the score of CATS with regards to recurring melodies. Sternfeld's book on megamusicals mentions that Grizabella's first entrance ("Remark the cat...") is some kind of a preview of Memory before the song is actually sung. Yet I could add a few more. The "Peaceful summer night" verse in Growltiger's Lsat Stand is slightly modified to become the duet In una tepida notte, and the little fanfare that introduces Journey to the Heaviside is also used as an effective counterpoint to the refrain of Mr. Mistoffelees, as if to underscore Misto's hopes of being chosen. But one subtle thing strikes me, and that's the Jellicle motif (the tag that closes Memory.) It's slightly modified in the sprightly section of Gumbie Cat, and we hear two snatches of it in the Mistoffelees dance.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:29 am
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Ther reason that the "Peaceful summer night..." section is similar to Una Teppida Notte, is because the Italian aria is that same verse, just in Italian. The aria is actually Webber having a go at his critics. It is intentionally a blatent rip-off of Puccini opera.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:14 am
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The thing about ALW is that he repeats music in a totally random way. There are a lot of musicals that use repetition. Even Sondheim uses repetition. The thing is that sondheim repeats in a way that seems naturally for the characters. ALW repeats because he feels it fits, while it does not. ALW is a really weak composer. The main reason that I enjoy his work, is because he is a good orchestrator.

Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita uses some clever repetitions, but his later shows are just silly.

The overture in Cats is not randomly mash-ups of tunes in the show. As previously stated, it is a quite clever work. The overture of cats is actually one of the best songs ALW has written, in my opinion.


Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:36 am
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Tony Winner
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[quote="Mungojerrie_rt"]Ther reason that the "Peaceful summer night..." section is similar to Una Teppida Notte, is because the Italian aria is that same verse, just in Italian. The aria is actually Webber having a go at his critics. It is intentionally a blatant rip-off of Puccini opera.[/quote]

Yes, but everytime I hear it I can sense that musically it's a slightly altered version of the "Peaceful summer night" section, with slight changes to the last phrases. I cannot put a music score to show you, as the Really Useful Group might not like it.


Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:19 am
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Yip1982 wrote:
Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Ther reason that the "Peaceful summer night..." section is similar to Una Teppida Notte, is because the Italian aria is that same verse, just in Italian. The aria is actually Webber having a go at his critics. It is intentionally a blatant rip-off of Puccini opera.


Yes, but everytime I hear it I can sense that musically it's a slightly altered version of the "Peaceful summer night" section, with slight changes to the last phrases. I cannot put a music score to show you, as the Really Useful Group might not like it.


That's exactly what I said. They are the same.


Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:39 am
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