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Why do ppl dislike ALW, call him a hack, etc, etc, etc 
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Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
It does have meaning. She is feeling the same lost helplessness she felt earlier.


It was the Mistress who felt abandoned by her much older lover - it's two wildly different situations. In my opinion, it's very shallow comparing those two sorts of feelings of helplessness.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:47 am
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Which two events do you mean?

The Mistress reprises the statement because she is now thrown aside the same way Eva was initially.
Eva reprises it when she is dieing because she has the same question. Her world has been torn down and she needs to know what's to become of her, same as the mistress.


Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:55 am
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Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Which two events do you mean?

The Mistress reprises the statement because she is now thrown aside the same way Eva was initially.
Eva reprises it when she is dieing because she has the same question. Her world has been torn down and she needs to know what's to become of her, same as the mistress.


What are you talking about? The Mistress sings the entire song. And comparing the situation of a twelve years old being dumped by a grown up man to the situiation of a dictator's wife dieing from cancer is just bizarre.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:04 am
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8O The mistress sings "Another Suitcase"? I've only seen the movie, and in that, Eva sings the song after she finds out that Magaldi is married.


Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:20 am
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Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
8O The mistress sings "Another Suitcase"?


Yup.

In itself it's pretty corny dramaturgy to give such a prominent song to such an inconsequential character.

I like the song itself, though, as a song. I'm so sappy.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:53 am
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Dvarg wrote:
Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
8O The mistress sings "Another Suitcase"?


Yup.

In itself it's pretty corny dramaturgy to give such a prominent song to such an inconsequential character.

I like the song itself, though, as a song. I'm so sappy.


Sounds like it works better with Eva singing it where she does in the movie.


Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:38 am
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1. The mistress is 16 years old when she appears in the show. Not 12 yrs old.
2. I have always felt that the Mistress character was an Everywoman. Not just a miotress, but all of Peron's mistresses combined into one. Eva even says "You're obviously going through some adolecent phase."

Anyway, I think it makes sense to have the echo in there because Rice and Lloyd Webber would never had left it in the song structure if it didn't make sense.

To me, that's all that matters. What the authors meant is all that matters.

Andy.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:37 am
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Mungojerrie_rt wrote:
Sounds like it works better with Eva singing it where she does in the movie.


I'm not sure, because it seems Magaldi is Eva's first man, so the allusions she makes to having been exploited earlier doesn't seems to make sense to me. But perhaps it's a solution.

jcstar wrote:
I think it makes sense to have the echo in there because Rice and Lloyd Webber would never had left it in the song structure if it didn't make sense.


That's a very flawed argument, you know :wink: What you're saying is "it makes sense because ALW and TR say it make sense". So, exactly how does it maker sense? I've argued why I think it doesn't make sense.

jcstar wrote:
What the authors meant is all that matters.


Not if their intentions are misguided, imo.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:46 am
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I actually like the phrasing at this point in the dialog because it represents a shift in Eva's personality. Prior to this point whe was always strong and fierce. After her colapse she finally becomes vulnerable, much like the mistress was when Eva kicked her out. I therefore think the reprise of the phrase "So what happens now" represents the breaking of Eva's willpower. She is no longer in control.

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Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:48 am
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Incidentally, Peron has those lines, not Eva. Eva simply sings "Where am I going to?"

Andy.

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Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:33 pm
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dolbinau wrote:
how do composers integrate melodies with lyrics if they did not write them? Do lyricists work around the music or is it the other way around?

Both. Different composers work different ways. For ALW, he composes the score, and then the lyricist writes over them. He also composes pieces randomly, and then decides, perhaps ten or twenty years on, that one of these pieces could fit into the new musical he is planning. He therefore is not composing according to the musicals theme. He did this with 'Music of the Night' (previously called 'The Married Man') and 'Let Us Love In Peace' (previously called 'The Heart is Slow To Learn') among others. Even in his introduction to 'The Likes of Us' he shares his fear of releasing it to the public as he knows that he has used pieces in it for later musicals.

Not that I am against ALW. I find him good fun and am a big fan. I pretty much like all of his musicals. There's a few misses here and there, but they're right for me. I do think that he is a better song writer than a composer. And by that I mean he can write some great outstanding tracks, but when he writes a whole score, the quality goes down somewhat.

I think ALW has many critics simply because he is popular. I'm not saying there is nothing to criticise, because they're certainly is, but when musicals such as ALW's gets so much exposure, there is certain to be more critics along with the fans. That's just the way it is. Also, most things that are popular do tend to have a lack of sophistication so it can reach the biggest general audience as possible. I don't know much about the technical side of musicals, or music in general to know what the sophistication could be, but I tend to trust those that do know what they're talking about. Regardless, my opinion, or my ability to enjoy something popular remains unhindered.

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Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:23 am
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jcstar wrote:
Incidentally, Peron has those lines, not Eva. Eva simply sings "Where am I going to?"


This part of the discussion is slightly old now, but my opinion is that the reprise does work. If you want a bitch-Eva, this is her shamelessly appropriating the "feel sorry for me" song of the woman she usurped, probably without even realising she's doing it. Seems like the kind of thing that Eva would do. If you want a more sympathetic Eva, this is her finding herself (to her shock and horror) thrust into a situation that echoes what she put somebody else through so unfeelingly earlier on. (The similarities between the two situations would be, as Set_Buildin_Dad said, losing control and becoming vulnerable... losing her source of security?) To me it's a bit like, of all things, Higgins in 'I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face', because he seems so horrified that he's actually become 'weak' and 'sentimental' like Eliza and started to care...

And I think the random song was given to the mistress as a Che-like moment. jcstar called her an Everywoman; I agree. The song gives a voice to all the people Eva stepped on on the way to the top, IMO.


Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:19 am
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