The Resource For Musicals



The MdN Social Club Forum


Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Historical Movies 
Author Message
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:56 pm
Posts: 2738
Location: Lousiana
Current Obsession: Too many to list.
Main Role: Fan
Post Historical Movies
This is a subject that has been running through me for a long while and thought I should ask here. What do you guys think of movies like Amadeus, Anastasia, Sound of Music, Titanic, De Vinci Code, and also the upcoming Anonymous where they do change parts of the real story to suit the flow of the story that they tell. Do find them offensive that they screw around with history to get something crossed out or do you think they use it to an advantage?

_________________
"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities." J.R.R. Tolkin.


MDN's Superlative Voting Winner:Most Likely To Make You Laugh


Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:10 am
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:04 am
Posts: 1253
Location: Australia
Post Re: Historical Movies
I don't find it offensive at all -- if your primary goal is to entertain, then I don't think you should let the truth get it the way of a good story! However, I do find it frustrating when people assume that such films are historically accurate and talk as if the content were fact when to anyone with a pre-existing knowledge of the subject matter, it's blatantly obvious that they are works of historical fiction.


Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:36 am
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:54 am
Posts: 1003
Post Re: Historical Movies
Brackynn wrote:
I don't find it offensive at all -- if your primary goal is to entertain, then I don't think you should let the truth get it the way of a good story! However, I do find it frustrating when people assume that such films are historically accurate and talk as if the content were fact when to anyone with a pre-existing knowledge of the subject matter, it's blatantly obvious that they are works of historical fiction.


I fully agree with this.

Although, it's a big plus when it actually does encourage fact-checking and research.

The movie "Anonymous" was mention in the OP; and after reading up on the theory (The Oxfordian theory in particular) I still find myself skeptical, but I'm a bit more willing to listen to what may be presented later.


Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:44 am
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:15 pm
Posts: 1290
Post Re: Historical Movies
Yakko wrote:
This is a subject that has been running through me for a long while and thought I should ask here. What do you guys think of movies like Amadeus, Anastasia, Sound of Music, Titanic, De Vinci Code, and also the upcoming Anonymous where they do change parts of the real story to suit the flow of the story that they tell. Do find them offensive that they screw around with history to get something crossed out or do you think they use it to an advantage?


"Apollo 13" is probably more accurate than most but even in that film they stretched the truth for entertainment's sake. "Battle of the Bulge" was ridiculous with its desert battle finale. And I think the Van Trapp family said of "The Sound of Music", none of that happened.

It's unfortunate that these films can give a false perception of history. The film "Ip Man" gives an absurd account of the life of Yip Man the founder of the martial art Wing Chun. And I bet many people walk away after seeing it believing it to be a true account (except for the fantastically athletic martial art fight scenes). I think films can cloud the reality of what really happened. In some cases they can be used by governments to indoctrinate their citizens or even be a platform for the film's producers to spread their point of view. Even documentaries are suspect as I have seen very few that try to present all sides of the issue.

_________________
POUNCE!!!!!
ImageImageImage


Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:34 am
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 1:30 pm
Posts: 2076
Location: United Kingdom
Current Obsession: Chess
Post Re: Historical Movies
By and large, historical inaccuracies can be accepted if it serves the story. This is, however, dependent on several factors such as how onerous the changes are in terms of implication.

_________________
MDN Superlatives 2011: 'Most Improved Singer' and 'Most Likely to Become President' (tie)

Image


Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:19 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:52 pm
Posts: 1043
Main Role: Performer
Post Re: Historical Movies
I mean, Inglorious Basterds is definitely the best historic movie. That's how it really happened...... ;)

But I think that it's good to draw upon the world's rich history for film and novels, even if they play with the actual events. I'm much more concerned with period-appropriate costumes and music and things like that. Most people should know that the plot of a movie won't be 100% true to its real-life counterpart, but I think it's lazy and ignorant of the production team to ignore the way the setting and society looked/acted in that time. It's much more immersive when everything looks and feels true to history, even if the story takes a few liberties.

_________________
Currently: Ensemble, Assassins
Previously: Lucy Brown, The Threepenny Opera; Kim MacAfee, Bye Bye Birdie; Edith, Pirates of Penzance; Penny Sycamore, You Can't Take It With You


Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:52 am
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:15 pm
Posts: 1290
Post Re: Historical Movies
le_moofin wrote:
I mean, Inglorious Basterds is definitely the best historic movie. That's how it really happened...... ;)


That's an interesting film. Most historical films take liberties in filling in the details but leave actual historical events in place. Has any film before blatantly tried to reboot an historical event? The closest I've seen has to do with time travel but typically the the films' protagonists effort to undo the damage and restore the original historical timeline.

_________________
POUNCE!!!!!
ImageImageImage


Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:17 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1563
Post Re: Historical Movies
.


Last edited by NoOneMournsTheWicked on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:56 pm
Profile
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 8:33 am
Posts: 3056
Location: Musical Cyberspace
Current Obsession: Musicals!
Post Historical Musicals at Musical Cyberspace
Musicals can be based on historical events too! Come and discover some of them at Musical Cyberspace - the BETTER resource for musicals.

_________________
Image
VISIT MUSICAL CYBERSPACE: A TRIBUTE TO THE MUSICALS OF BROADWAY AND BEYOND.


Last edited by RainbowJude on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:41 pm
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Current Obsession: Parade
Main Role: Performer
Post Re: Historical Movies
In my film class, we're actually talking a lot about this. What follows is my opinion:

When can a period film be treated as a historical document? The short answer is never. A film can be well-researched, completely realistic to its period, devoid of anachronisms, etc. but it will never be an authentic representation of the time period it seeks to replicate. There's a huge difference between something realistic and well-researched and something that's authentic.

To expect that a film that's set against the backdrop of a historical period, or one that's a telling of something that happened in history, to completely conform to history is a ridiculous and unfair expectation of the people who make the movie.

I think it's especially important to remember that a period movie is just as much a reflection of the time that it was made as it is a reflection of the time it is depicting. This doesn't necessarily make what is depicted in the film historically inaccurate; those moments people may perceive as distortion of history could be a very accurate depiction of the sentiments that were strong at the time of the film's creation.

I also think it's important to remember that anything on screen that's not a documentary or a newsreel should be classified as fiction. Someone wrote that story; no matter how much it is inspired by history, in the end it is still fiction.

People in Shakespeare's day knew his Histories were played fast and loose in terms of accuracy, but frankly they knew enough about their history that they could differentiate between entertainment and fact.

That people of today get bent out of shape on account of a few historical aberrations in the latest summer blockbuster is depressing, and wastes brainpower that should be spent on figuring out how to make sure children's history lessons aren't completely taught by Hollywood.

---

Now, as for Anonymous...

I am of the opinion that if it was Shakespeare's name on the plays, then it was Shakespeare who wrote them. I think that he certainly seems the most likely person to have written them out of all the suspects, because everyone else would have been too busy (as in the case of Francis Bacon and Elizabeth I) or too dead for the latter half of his canon (as in the case of Edward de Vere, Marlowe, Elizabeth I, etc. etc.). Boring, I know.

However, I can acknowledge that there is a great deal we don't know about Shakespeare. That's not to say that we know a great deal more about his contemporaries, such as Marlowe and Jonson, but I've never heard of an Anti-Marlovian, or the Jonson Authorship Debates.

However, the highly educated high-class scholars who debate the authorship of Shakespeare's plays don't seem to consider Massacre at Paris or Bartholomew Fair plays worth fighting for, though Marlowe and Jonson both went to universities of high tenure, like these Anti-Stratfordian scholars...

Could it be that there simply is an inability to accept that the glover's son from Avon who had only a grammar school education (I say 'only' most cynically; the school Shakespeare probably attended was one of the best educational institutions in Europe, bar none), could have written plays of such voluminous wordage, of such eloquent concept and outstanding characterization, while the university-learned playwrights churned out the Renaissance equivalent of PG 13 horror films?

-underlying sarcasm begins-

Is there elitism afoot in these academic circles?

-underlying sarcasm over-

That said, Vanessa Redgrave as Elizabeth I. All criticism of Anonymous should be set aside until the world understands the magnitude of such an occurrence.


Last edited by Canadian Drama Geek on Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:30 pm
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
Broadway Legend / MdN Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 14, 2003 8:33 am
Posts: 3056
Location: Musical Cyberspace
Current Obsession: Musicals!
Post Historical Musicals at Musical Cyberspace
Musicals can be based on historical events too! Come and discover some of them at Musical Cyberspace - the BETTER resource for musicals.

_________________
Image
VISIT MUSICAL CYBERSPACE: A TRIBUTE TO THE MUSICALS OF BROADWAY AND BEYOND.


Last edited by RainbowJude on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:38 pm
Profile WWW
Broadway Legend
Broadway Legend

Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Canada
Current Obsession: Parade
Main Role: Performer
Post Re: Historical Movies
Absolutely, RainbowJude. I was being slightly facetious there.

A person shooting historical events for a documentary or newsreel has great power in determining how these events are portrayed. Editing is a storytelling form all to its own, and has been used to the benefit and detriment of history in the past.

There is nothing more visually effective than cutting from one sequence to another. Imagine if in a documentary of World War Two, every single shot of Winston Churchill doing Allied Forces business was followed by a random shot of a Nazi flag fluttering in the wind. Such compositions happen all the time in documentaries and newsreels, which is why it is best to receive all media with an open but questioning mind.


Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:46 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 13 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.