Was it straight from Broadway though? Like the Wicked tour, for example. I know it was an equity run.


I know, right? It's so poorly designed. I couldn't even figure out how to delete one of my posts.

Hah hah! I've not posted there in years as I was banned just for that fact!! LOL! Plus, people were jealous of my history with the show. And yes, the Mods are out of line and too controlling over there. If you are not part of "their" "Clique" then forget it! There are a core number of people who lord it over the rest on that board, and most of the other members are too frightened of loosing any sort of place they have so they don't say anything in order to not rock the boat. It's about 5 top people over there who are just making it bad for anyone else's opinion. You can't post anything negative about a regional show, it's actors or costumes, or about anyone's costume, not even "I think that if you did this it would make the costume turn out better..." kind of thing too. I won't say anymore but the main people on the board have a major complex and are always uppity about their "status."

Now, I can't even post what I just did up above here, it's really sad that you have to censor yourself all the time/rant! I totally agree with agreement or disagreements. People should have a right to say what's on their minds without fear of censorship. But it's all, "We have to respect your feelings sort of crap" that really gets me. If a regional show of CATS is really bad I want to express myself. We all know it's BAD but we can't SAY anything. It's crap like that that really gets me. I know the people who work on shows try to do their best, but some don't even care, they just want to sell tickets and don't care about what gets put up on that stage.

I'll move my photos over to Picasa so you guys can see them. And I'll edit this post, Rumblepurr if it's too offensive as well. But it's nice to say what I want to once in a while.

Purrs,
VTWC

The only thing that pushes my buttons is when something negative is said just for the Shock Value. Without the pros and cons of any subject, you cannot rightly call what we are on a "Forum". A Forum is where everything can be talked about - including the "dark side" of an issue. The rules are simple = If you say something - back it up with facts! If you disagree with someone, make sure you attack what is SAID and not the person saying it. Furthermore, everybody needs a Devil's Advocate to keep them on an even keel at times. Yes, it would be a very nice world to live in if everything was great! When you find that world, please send directions...

So far, CCDB has not booted me off, but I had to remind the moderators over there that I am a moderator as well. That got some flak - something about letting CCDB mods take care of things, even if something was said that was out-of-line... Hey! I had to argue with a moderator on RUG when they got snippy about someone on the old MdN Forum!!! Someone had report the wrong, and I just happened to be the one...

@VTWC ? = If anyone complains, I 'might' do something about it. My "rant" is above, and I would be equally guilty of censorship if I disallowed it... Supposedly, I am not the only mod here... Just seems like it at times... Rock on...

Rumblepurr

I agree with VTWC. I asked one of the mods on the other board if Ican come back and she was a B about it and wouldn't let me go back on. No one remebers me on that board.

You hit the nail on the head.

They got on my ass for stating that I did not approve of Taylor Swift being in the Les Miserables movie and one of the mods called me a bigot. .....LOLWUT? Please explain to me how that makes an ounce of sense! I even wrote back to one of the mods and asked them why it's fair that I got in trouble for stating an opinion, and yet it's okay for their fellow mod to call me a name. She justified it by saying that I basically deserved it. Bias at its best.

Boy am I glad that I'm not the only one who experienced problems over there.



Yes, of course. That's pretty universal with forums. You can debate, but be civil about things. That's completely reasonable. But what they're doing over there is complete censorship, and that's just rotten. I understand it's their forum and they can do what they want, but they can't expect to keep members if they're going to be that controlling. But maybe that's what they want. I wouldn't be surprised if they want to keep that forum exclusive to their little buddies. If that's the case, then I don't want anything to do with it.



Exactly. I'm all for being civil and decent, but some people need to just not be so butt hurt. =\ The truth is, you're on the internet, and you're going to encounter jerks and trolls alike. I'm not saying it's right, but you need to be strong and remind yourself that it's just the internet. It's common sense you don't take things too seriously. Especially if it's an obvious joke or sarcasm, as my post on that site was. I didn't curse. I didn't call anyone any names. I just made a humorous post. But I guess people's pwecious feelings just can't handle it.

But then again, I'm kind of a tell it like it is person.

Well, I have learned the level on CCDB the hard way but I think the key thing is that its a lot off really young kids over there and when you keep that in mind the mods level and way off doing things are a lot more understandeble. So argumentations that would be perfectly accepteble here would cause you a perm ban on CCDB, but given the culture the mods there are trying to create I totaly agree and understand it.

As for being honest with what youll like about a certain show youd seen I am perfectly fine that every one feels different and sometimes even think its downright bad, but I think its polite to have a bit self censour when it comes to telling that you think a show is downright bad, both in respect for thoose that want to go and see it and in respect for the creative team and the actors whom probebly are doing theyre best to put up as a good show as they can. With that said I dont mind constructive critique about how things could be improved and such.

Well my two cents anyway, and as always said with total respect to all on CCDB. <3

Hi, there is a long post ahead. You may tl:dr it for what it is worth. I guess I happen to be one of the “Elite Five” so I have an insider’s point of view. And I’m sorta tired of this. This conflict between a few of us has been going for maybe 5 years? I am not saying we can really solve it tonight. But every few months, the CCDB gets its load of public stuff written against it, usually by the same people. And while it is your legitimate right to disagree with us and to say it somewhere, maybe, just maybe there is stuff you need to hear from us also.

At the CCDB, we normally just shrug off disapproving public posts like the ones above. I think it is a universal truth that you cannot please everybody, and we deal with that fact every single day. But inversely, we pride ourselves in not spreading negative propaganda against anybody. I know that it’s impossible for me to just walk in, say cute stuff and make it all better, but I guess I'm not wasing my time trying.

I don't want to "defend" myself against anything, and not try to defend my co-mods either. It’d be pretty pedantic of me to act as if anyone needed me to protect them against public opinions. We all are are free to react or not. We have to deal with it. Obviously, all of you have had your issues with the CCDB mods. I'm sorry about that. But I will agree with Rumblepurr here, and let my own censorship down a moment. Here’s what I have to reply to the above.

First of all, I’ll start with the “controlling” aspect of our board, which seems to be your main issue. You guys aren’t exactly exagerating. We are pretty controlling as a moderation crew. We log in everyday, we review everything carefully... we take the time to debate every single decision we take, to make sure we’re all agreeing. Sometimes, one mod within the crew will disagree with the rest, but as a team, the majority wins. So if 4 people out of 7 deem a thread to be potentially abrasive, we will very likely close it. Specially if we receive complains. Does it make us “right” to do so? Do we really think it is wrong to discuss Taylor Swift’s interpretation of Eponine, politics or religion? No, but we make choices. Yes people should be allowed to discuss everything... But not everywhere. I see our forum as an equivalent to a classroom. Talking about economics in a literature paper is not appropriate and you will be failed by the teacher, even if your essay about economics is 100% accurate. Shitty comparison, sorry, but it makes sense to me. I’m sure you get the point. And remember that sarcasm translates poorly online. If you're posting just a link, followed by "EWWWWW!" and an emote, this is poor content, and we cannot determine it is a joke. It is not very debate-friendly.

And we also think that if people really want to discuss Taylor Swift’s singing qualities, they can pursue the discussion on Facebook, Twitter, or other forums. The goal is never to flush discussions that we *personally* deem offensive. No moderator takes personal a disliking of an actor or singer, we're not that freaky. I like to think we’re all level-headed adults, we just do not want flame wars. And you would be surprised at how fast flame wars spurt. I'm not sure what kinda "names" anyone got called by us, because I honestly never saw a CCDB mod insult anyone. But reading above, I do see some unpolitical things aimed at us... So I have to assume that if any of our mods said anything inappropriate to any of you (which I doubt, but still, we're just humans, we can make mistakes... and Wazoo, more specifically, "you are treading close to bigotry" isn't the same as "you bigot!") well, it might have been in reaction to similiar stuff. There sure are a few things anyone'd be tempted to react to, written just above...

And you guys mention the other situation that some other people got banned for... We did ban people who bashed on regional productions. Mind you, we did not ban people who simply said “My experience at this regional wasn’t the best.” We banned people who wrote “OMG, it looked like they painted old socks with vomit and used them as unitards!” More or less the exact quote. That is how far it went before we took it down, so I don't think we were that bad. When such threads pop up, we first want to think : “We’re all grown up. We can critique stuff. Things won’t go downhill." yet it always gets out of hand, many times. There will always be people that bring “constructive criticism” to unacceptable ends, and because of that, everyone else pays. Is that fair? No, but so many things about this society are not.

Please remember that we’ve had members of regional productions join the boards looking for artists to commission before. People from regional productions looking to buy wigs and warmers from some of our artists with their own money, not even the theatre’s money. And to some of our artists, it is an income that pays their bills. Do we want high schools or regional actors spreading the word that the CCDB is a bunch of elitists that laugh at their work? We do not, and maybe some of you couldn’t care less wether some kids got offended at “the truth”, but this is where we beg to differ. We do mind what opinion they have of us, because they might offer us their business, or spread out the word about us.

But it gets worse. We’ve had people call some Troika US Tour actors “losers” and “lazy asses” and other uneloquent insults. Thing is... we have had quite a few US Tour actors join the board over the years. Heck, we've had board members become tour actors.

Now I ask you, is it fair for any CCDB member to go to the CATS US tour dressed up, hoping that the actors will sign their booklet after the show... to find out that the whole cast thinks she’s probably just another bitchy fan? Because “she is one of the freaks from the CATS bashforum”?

And I speak by experience, I’m not making up anything. I’ve had show actors ask me “Are you XXX from the CCDB?” and I could see in their eyes that they were weary of me, trying to figure out how bad or creepy I was. I don't blame them. So I ask you, as a bunch of FANS of a musical, how bad do we look if most of our threads discuss how disgusting the show is? How much better the London tour is? How horrible the “different” Gothenburg production is? What kind of appreciation will we get from the actors when we go up to them for autographs? Will they just shrug us off like bugs because they assume we’re just there to mock them? Take a minute and think about this. And I mean, really think about this. Do not roll your eyes or view me as an offended board moderator that’s seeking to prove herself and her friends “right”. It’s not about right or wrong, it’s about how we look as a community. And our own contribution, as a handful of fans (we are fans too!), is to make sure other fans can go to the show and wear their costume without being tagged “CCDB bitch”. We want them to know who we are for the good reasons. Not because we constantly disapprove of Taylor Swift, regional shows or mint shampoo. We discuss stuff we love, like unicorns and knitting, and act like a bunch of merry fellows. Period.

We are not like Musicals.net, we are not trying to run our board the same way. Mind you, your board isn’t run badly, no oneever implied that. We never mocked your ways or questioned them. We are not claiming to be a better, more thriving CATS fandom. However, The CCDB is the branch of the fandom that cosplays and dresses up as a hobby. So that may be why we have to run it differently too. Our discussions tend to not revolve around the authentic costumes we own, nor around the fanfiction or art we create. We mostly share techniques about wig-making and plan meets. You guys mentioned it earlier, the community is getting a lot of younger members as of late. So the equation for us CCDB mods is very often this one :

"teenage girls posting pictures of their lycra-clad bodies + the internet and not really knowing WHO is on the other end of the computer + people giving out their address to other people for business / meets = super tight security and selective membership"

Again, I am not saying we are not controlling. Because we are. But do you honestly think we’re being a bunch of asses for the sake of watching our peers pee their pants upon seeing our forum icons? We honestly just want the business / sharing environment to be safe for all ages AND to have a good reputation.

Are we an “uppity clique” of five people that scare away anyone who’s not hot enough for us? I don’t think so... as I just said we’re trying to make the forum friendly for the younger fans, instead of pushing them away like flies. I’m not worried about how people see us. Our “conventions and meets” subforum gets a ton of posts, people want to get together. People travel to meet each other and share the fun. The website’s mods might have become good friends over time, but we are certainly not the only ones who are having a party. Not meaning to get sappy or corny, but just look below... you’ll count more than just 5 mods. Those are all group pics taken on public places or at cons...



So basically I’m sorry that some of you feel like you’ve been wronged or banned for no good reason, but I assure you that a lot of members who decided to play by our stricter-than-usual rules are having fun. And if our members want to discuss subjects we personally do not want on the board, they totally can do so elsewhere. That’s just how we work.

I could go on for a while... But I believe this post is way too long and cheesy already, and as I said, I’m not trying to convince you guys that you are wrong or that I am right. You certainly are entitled to feel as if we are “too strict”. But at least, we give people three warnings or equivalent strikes before we push the ban button, which is plenty of time to adjust to the atmosphere.

Lastly... because I gotta admit that being bashed on biannually by other CATS forums is getting old, I think I’m gonna be really honest here. VTWC, as much as I respect your person, and as much as you are entitled to feel that you were banned for bad reasons from our board, you did send us insults and death threats after you were banned. Seriously, we are the ones who go crazy for nothing? No one knows why you did this, and it’s really a shame because we want to believe you didn’t mean everything you said and that it was just momentarily anger... but how were we supposed to react to that? How is anyone supposed to take online threats? As a funny joke? As a real threat? Even 5 years later, I do not know what the right reaction should have been... We’re not perfect, we felt thrown off by all that jazz. Not to add it says something about the emotional state you were in before we banned you.

I’d love to just post this and expect things between our fandom “cliques” to change, but I know that general distaste of another person’s values and actions isn’t easily modified. But at least, you have our side of the medal. You’d probably heard it before, but maybe not written like that... so if the above makes any difference, I’m glad.

I do not mean to lack respect to anybody. I know better than that, and as a mod elsewhere, I do not want to put myself in a politically incorrect position. But if anyone wishes to really dialogue with me, I’m also willing to listen back. I’m never gonna speak on behalf my friends and co-mods, though. There is a difference between CCDB mod EK and just EK the internet user.

The CCDB crew as an entity cannot afford to argue all the time with everyone... it would never end, and it would make us look bad. But me as a person, I can honestly say I wish we were not so ruffled with each other. So... there you go.

Hoping this footlong post brings some good. If not, I'm really sorry. Keep on walking your way.

EK

Well said, EK!!

She pretty much raised all the points I was going to, but in a far kinder and polite manner.

We're NOT m.net. We don't try to be. Likewise, just because I'm an admin over there doesn't mean I know jack about how m.net is run. Do I try to moderate here? NO. Do I try to administrate here? NO. Do I know how to do these things in a general manner? Absolutely. However, I'm nobody here and I don't attempt to be presumptuous and tell the Staff here how to run things if I don't like something. I know my place and keep it. To do otherwise, no matter how well-meaning, usually doesn't go over well. In one of those gray areas where I may not like what's going on, but others don't seem to have a problem with it, I just sit on the fence, because I'd rather keep my mouth shut and look like an ass rather than open it and be proven one. Now, if there's something *blatantly* wrong, like someone openly being a troll or making threats and the like, only then will I step up and say something if it's not my board. Not until--and those situations are much rarer than you might think, as most forums' Staff is usually aware of and dealing with the situation before I even open my PM box.

And saying that since this is the Internet, and idiots and trolls are on the 'Net, and therefore we have to put up with them, is false. For example, there are drunk drivers out in the world. We don't have to put up with them, and in fact, there are laws against that sort of thing to keep them from hurting other people. Just because people behave badly doesn't mean we have to approve of or condone whatever bad behaviour that person is doing, nor do we need to allow it on our site because 'that's just the way the world is.'

We run a tight ship because we HAVE to. We have a generally younger membership than m.net. As a result we HAVE to be stricter. There's no way around it. The fact is that people often cannot act like adults--especially when they're not yet. They have to be taught how to behave and this requires constant monitoring on our end. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's frustrating, but it is a labour of love on our part and ultimately worth every minute.

EK's points are sound. If you don't like us, fine. You don't have to. But I find it amusing in a dark way that all the criticism of how we run things comes from the same four or five people over and over and over again, and it's ALWAYS the same batch of complaints. If you don't like the way we run things, fine! No one says you have to. Hell, if you want to, start your own site. There are plenty of free ones out there. Competition is the soul of capitalism. If you feel you can do a better job, then start your own site and prove it instead of constantly complaining about us.

Before you flame me too much for this post, though, let me point out one thing--the CCDB is thriving. I get at least four or five new account requests on a *slow* day. This place is pretty much dead. If we're too strict, it's obviously not killing our membership. Indeed, I would argue that because we *do* have a tight knit group of Staff that's making sure the trains run on time, people feel it's a safer and more positive place to spend their finite Internet time.

So yeah. Like I said, EK said pretty much everything else I was going to, but I have a feeling this will be tl;dr'd and I just wasted my time.

My $3.

I know I was kicked out for no reason! Shadow is the only one that remebers me and I can't go back on because of her. That's just wrong. I wish I could be let back on. sometime I need costume help and no on here can help me out.

Please, let's keep this diplomatic. Other than ignoring all what I wrote above, you are also implying that a specific individual "bullied" you online, for lack of a better word, and this is not fair to our administrator (who, should I add, always gets all the blame). We always act as a team, and as such, Shadow is not and was never responsible for your banning, even if she carried the message.

"No reason" seems quite impossible to me. We don't hit the ban button at random, without warning, for fun. We probably gave you our reasons in an e-mail. You say it was long ago, and that only Shadow remembers you. Did you use to go by the username jellylorum, maybe? If yes, then not only Shadow remembers you, we all do. If you care to answer me, I might help you better understand what led to your banning.

Again, please at least take the time to read what I wrote above, before formulating more accusations.


EDIT:
@Suzy : Darkmage, who uses M.net more than me, told me you are indeed jellylorum. I assume you do not want me to post the exact reasons you got banned from the CCDB publicly, so PM me if you want clarifications.

I got no e-mail and no explination why I was banned. The last thing I remebr saying to the people on the board is this "you guys are being mean to me" Then I was banned.

Again, please just take the time to PM me. I came here to sort this out, not fight over who is right or wrong.

You say you never got our e-mail. It is not impossible you never got it, but we do send one. Maybe the mail you had registered on your account wasn't the same adress you use normally, maybe you deleted the message by accident because you did not recognise the sender, etc.

I'm giving you a chance to re-hear the motives that got you banned on my personnal time, if you wish. PM me.